What business was your father in?
He started as a garment maker, using materials to make shirts and clothes manufacturing. From there, he has changed a few trades, from the sixties, for a quite a long period of time he was doing garment manufacturing, men shirts specifically. It's not tailor but it's on a bigger scale. He supplied to some stores but not the big stores. From there, he went into goldsmith, jewelry line. He also had other business, electronics like cameras, stereo sets. He was pretty diversified.

Have you ever considered going into your father's business?
Not really. I have my passion and love in watches. Very important for business to have the passion and love the things that you do. I didn't really like manufacturing garments and shirts. It's quite a tedious job, no doubt. I would rather prefer my own line, which are watches.

So why the immense interest in watches?
Watches are accessories for both men and women. There are always brands that people follow so if you carry brands that people follow; it's somewhat easier to do. If you manage well, good service and correct product, the customers will come to you. For Swiss watches, the prices are fixed or there can be only increase in price. So you don't have to worry about big fluctuations in prices of watches. For example, in computer business, in camera business or handphone business, the prices of your goods will always change and the price is decreasing, not increasing. The prices of watches will always maintain or increase so I have fewer worries. This is one reason why I like being in the watch business, more relaxed.

When did your interest in watches started?
Initially my dad's shop there was a little collection of watches. After that I started on my own counter, a little counter in People's Park. We were selling lower-end range of watches. Those days we had watches that were made in Hong Kong and Japanese watches. So I started to collect and like those watches. Collection started from then a little bit but now I have much more of my own collection. Right now my shop carries many brands. We are also the sole distributor for Versace in Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia. In fact, you can consider that we are the sole distributor in South-east Asia so we are expanding our network. Anyway we just got hold of the agency last year. So we are actually going to expand our network to perhaps international.

So how do you get this sole distribution?
It's definitely very competitive. In every line, whether it's watches or other lines, such as cameras and handphones, to get a dealership, it's easy. A distributor will appoint you as a dealer. So if you want to be a distributor, it's another level to climb and you must have the commitment, the financial backing, and the trust from your supplier in Switzerland. To build up all this confidence, it really requires time. They have to be impressed with your establishment. They won't just give it to you. They need to hear a little of your history and they want to know what is happening. Though they may be far away, they also can find out. No doubt it's a few thousand miles away but they do know what we are doing. You must have a proper proposal, all the plans to show them what you are going to do. There are definitely many pressures to fulfill the quotas and your targets.

So if you are sole distributor, you are actually given a target to meet?
Yes, you have to plan your budget and you need to show them the yearly or even quarterly figures that you plan to achieve.

Do you do the marketing for the brands as a sole distributor?
Yes, we have to do that. We have to do all these marketing which is done by Jennifer, my marketing director. It's her responsibility to let the consumers know that these brands are in the market.

How is selection process like for a sole distributor?
They do the selection. There are many applications. You meet them and it's also important to go for trade fairs, just to meet people, for example watch fair. We normally go for the Basel Fair in Switzerland. It's a city in Switzerland; it's an international fair where all the watch-retailer congregate. For the Swiss and fine watches, this is the biggest watch show in the world. So people will congregate together and meet together. This is something like going the "Mecca" of watch-retailing industry. The big brands of watches will all be there, Rolex, Omega and the other players. They will be there to showcase their latest collections. All the big CEOs of all the companies will be there to meet you. It's an excellent chance to network. This fair is organized by the city of Basel and the watch association in Switzerland.

There's a watch association?
Yes, in fact there is worldwide to bring retailers together. In Singapore, we also have one. I'm a committee member of the Singapore Watch Association.

As a committee member of the Singapore Watch Association, what do you have to do?
Organize some activities. We have an annual dinner for all the members plus some troubleshooting help. If they face problems, for example fake watches, somebody is selling fake watches, complaints etc. It's more or less to iron out some problems and organize some activities such as golfing tournament, bowling. Basically our goal is allow all the people in the watch industry to know each other better and more united to face overseas competitions.

How many children do you have?
I have 3 boys.

How old are they?
They are 15, 13, and 7.

Do encourage your children to go into business?
Definitely I will but only after they have completed their educations, university degree. Importantly, it's to study as much as you, whether it's a degree or a masters. It's important for your career. After you have finished all your studies, why not? If you have the touch, you can come into business and make it big. Increase employment and make the business world more vibrant. I would prefer more people coming into business, rather than all the businesses run by the government. The government should encourage entrepreneurship. As our DPM said, there is no such thing as an iron bowl now. I think that there is some retrenchment going on. I think that should have the spirit to keep going on, at least can find some people with the entrepreneurship.

Do you actually talk to your children about business?
At the moment, not much. I think that their minds should be focusing on their studies first. Maybe after a certain age, after their JCs or something. More or less they do know what we are doing but we don't bring them to the shops to expose them to the business. I always think the focus should be on studies now. Also, they may not see all the good things if they go down to the shops because of all the pressures. Let them have their school pressures, they have enough pressure. We will talk to them on a business a little bit here and there, what is the nature of business, what is the up and down but not too much. But I think ultimately must focus on studies.

If your son starts a business when he is in university and he feels that his business can earn him a decent living of maybe $5000 at least at the moment, and he wants to quit school. Would you agree?
If the opportunity arises, if he can strike it big. He can still continue his studies later in an overseas university. You need follow the conventional path. If it's not a big opportunity, just a small try, you should finish your studies. There are many many opportunities to come by. Unless it's a big chance, I think should have some patience.

Has your business always be located here?
We started out at Chinatown Point with a watch shop.

Why did you choose that location?
I started business earlier in People's Park Complex because my parents were also doing business in the People's Park area. In those days, during the 70s, there are not many shopping centres, there're only People's Park and Lucky Plaza. Plus I know the area well and the cost of rental there is not that high. But for now, we are starting to explore new areas, we have considered Orchard and we have also another shop in Suntec City now. So we are moving to new areas.

Did you have to get a license to do business here?
Yes but it's really easy just register with ROC and that's it. You must also make your GST registration. It's very easy to start a business in Singapore.

How long do you think you will stay in your current locations?
I hope to stay as long as I can because I think that the Chinatown area is now more well-done up, upgrading and the train station is coming. I wish to stay as long as possible, hopefully the rental doesn't get too costly and the business is doing fine, it's a good area to stay. I mean why must you move away from Chinatown which is one of the places where tourists visit.

Do you have any partners?
Yes, my wife. She is my partner right from the start and she's one of the pillar in the company.

Tell me some stories that give me an idea of the hardships in starting a business from scratch.
I remember when I wanted to have a dealership in a certain brand and it's only dealership, not distributor. That time it was not at Chinatown Point, it was still at People's Park and there was a lot of competition thus it's not possible. Those distributor look at you as a newcomer, they won't open a dealership just that way. Even if you have the money to pay, it's just for the goods. I have to go another dealer to get the stocks so I'm not an official dealer so I cannot order straight from the distributor. The brand was quite popular. It seemed like it was impossible to get the dealership so I had to get from another dealer. So I went into this shop and spoke to the boss and asked to buy some watches so that I can sell in my shop. He agreed but the sales manager wasn't really helpful and he gave me a hard time. He insisted that I have to place a minimum order and other conditions and restrictions. He was treated me in a very condescending manner. To me, we are actually paying money and buying through them, they also make a profit but they didn't take me seriously. I thought that I was only running a fly-by-night small watch shop. They were rather arrogant. You have to beg them for goods, you pay them and yet they still don't give you the proper treatment. This type of feeling was not right. I was not against the brand, just the way personnel treated me. I think that importantly if somebody wants to come into the business and you don't want to help, it's necessary to be so arrogant.

If you buy your watches from another dealer, so will that increase your cost for your goods?
Yes, definitely because I cannot get the goods as a dealer, the cost of goods are definitely higher, maybe 5% more or even 10% but I have no choice. The goods are selling well and these brands are bringing you a good image. Customers are asking for this brand so you have to carry at least a little bit of it. So I definitely have a much lower profits.

What are some of the things you have had to overcome to succeed?
Hard work must always be there. Perseverance plus you have to be really focused on your work. I cannot say that I'm successful in my watch business because there is still a long way to go and we are learning the distributorship. One of my good friend that I always consult, inspire me to do more. His name is Mr Ng. When I have problems, he will help. To be successful, you will also need some luck. If all these factors are there and God take care of you, I'm not sure that you will make it but you must have all these criteria.

Tell me some stories of your best day in business.
One of my best days in business was when I was with my wife when we were at this Basel Fair and we were promoting our distributorship to an agency to bring to Singapore. The brand is Paul Picot. During this time, we were proposing to the president of the company. This is one of the earlier agencies that we got hold. We went through rounds of interviews and we have already sent in a lot of proposals. Then I was called up to meet them in the morning, I remembered we had to rush there because the appointment was quite early. The discussion lasted for an hour and half and we went through all the plans and what we can do. Finally we were given the distributorship for the region, Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia for Paul Picot watches. Those were one of my fine days in my business till now. That was actually the first brand we started distributing.

How did you go about selecting the brands you wish to distribute?
You have to read a lot of good watch magazines and do some market studies to find out which brands are popular.

Do you do consumer surveys to find out which brands are popular?
Not too much but we are in the business so we know what the consumers are looking for. It comes with experience or passion in watches. A combination of both will get you the right product. We look for watches that have character, quality and excellent finishing. You must have the passion and touch so when you look at brands you can spot which one to select. To the general public, many brands are the same but because we are in this line for so long, we have the touch to tell the difference and what are the right products. It's really important in the current watch business to have the right products, not like 10 to 15 years ago when you can sell anything. But now you really have to spot the right products.

Tell me some stories of your worst day in business.
I had one small shop in People's Park and there was a few years ago, there was actually a lot of construction. They actually brought down the overhead bridge linking to the mall. The business was totally gone and also I have just renovated the shop. There was almost no business at all. I was there for 6 to 9 months and it was a big loss for me. There is no business and the morale of the staff is low because there was no activity. You have to keep the shop going on and the staff going on. I decided to call it a day at that place so I had to move to another area. I think that was the worst part, having to close down a shop that you have just renovated. It's really painful.

During that time, have you thought of giving up?
No because at that I didn't blame it on the watch business. I blame the area that we opened and the surrounding factors are not there. To me the watch business, if you are patient enough, you can always do it in some area. Watch business is a long-term business; you can build relationships with customers for a long-time. I have customers who knew me from a small counter. After I have closed the shop in that area, it won't hinder me from going on. When I opened a shop in another area, the business came back. So I have faith in the industry. No doubt the market is very tough now bur in every business, nothing is easy. When you go in to do it, you will find something unusual and there are always changes. You have to do all your calculations and maintain it with a tight control, you will definitely have bad and good days. So not everyday is a rosy day but if you can take a low day like any normal day, then you can steer your ship more smoothly.

Did you have the capital to start the business or did you borrow it from someone to get started?
In fact, my parents helped me a little bit and I had to borrow from my friends and I had my own savings. I had some good advice from friends. Good friends are hard to come by but they are those that will really help you and support you. Though not always in monetary terms but the spiritual support is important. Not a lot but I would say my parents did give me a little head start.

Who are your competitors?
In Singapore, there are watch businesses like Hourglass, Sincere, Cortina. But we don't really treat them like competitors because we all have our own brands to take care of. We have different niche though we are in almost same category. They are much more established companies so we are learning from them. Three of them are all listed. We are not a threat to them but we want to learn as much as we can.

Have you ever thought of going in business with them to make a bigger business?
Why not? If we can have a good business together and if we can learn the ropes from them and expand our distribution. I would think it's a win-win situation. Hopefully we can offer good ideas to their businesses but it's definitely a plus for us to work with them.

Did you start as a businessman as a child selling things to your friends and family?
My parents were actually in business for many years. More or less, I have seen them doing trades. I like to sell things since a young age but not during school time. I like doing business and negotiate prices. I enjoy these challenges. I like to think about how to sell the products to the customers. It's a satisfaction. When I was 26 or 27, after I was married, my wife and I decided to come out and set up our business. I find that reporting to myself is easier than reporting to somebody else. When I looked at how my parents run the business and I thought that it's not so difficult to run one and I had many different ideas from my parents. So eventually when I opened a shop, it wasn't difficult.

So your parents were very supportive of you starting a business?
I started in the early 90s and my parents who were doing the business in 70s and 80s and they find that retail is rather plain sailing. So in fact, they encourage me to go into the retail business. But I think that I should study more to have a bigger mindset to do bigger things.

Since you kept emphasizing on the importance of finishing your studies before going into business, do you agree that many people with high education level have a greater inertia to start a business with their higher expectations?
Yes, I agree. If you already have a cushy job and paid $10,000 a month and you will think whether you can still make $10,000 a month when you do business, especially now in such a sluggish market. This hinders graduates from coming out to start their own small business, instead of joining MNCs. Probably those that didn't study as much would work harder for their own business. Those with high qualifications, they would rather go for well-paid jobs and join big companies. But the job market now is also not good.

A lot of people think that you don't need a degree to start a business. To what extent do you agree with this?
Yes I think so but I would think it is still better that you have a degree. When you have gone through tertiary studies, you are better able to within pressure. Your mind is broad in thinking with the school projects. It will really help you because after all some businesses are like projects and when the companies press you for figures and volume, these are like deadlines. So after you have withstand all the pressure, you are a better person. When your business grows bigger, your pressure increases. So if you ask a boy or girl who has just finished secondary school, they don't know what is pressure. So once they encountered difficulties they will stop.

Are there any points In your business life that you experienced something so significant e.g. war, racial riot, economic crisis, new competition, shift in market behavior and trends that affect or influence your life and business that make you change the way you do business and thinking?)
The Indonesians used to be our big customers but now there are fewer of them because of the currency crisis and their buying power decrease. So now we have to refocus our attention to our local customers. How to offer them better service, how to package your shop to get them to see your products? Because of the changing trends, we have to refocus or rather focus back onto our local customers to make them come back to you. Dr Janine Tay of Hourglass also mentioned this. So if you have both tourists coming to you and locals returning to buy more, it's a plus point.

Are you affected by the current economic crisis?
Yes, we are affected. But we managed to secure new distributorship and survive through these tough times. We were just ordinary retailers so I feel that now it's infiltration time when you filter weak and small players out of the market. Now that we suddenly lose the Thai and Pilipino-Chinese customers. The shopping dollars available really came down and some Singaporeans even go overseas to spend. So this crisis really wake us up.

Did you received a lot of advice from your friends?
Yes. I have this friend who is a visiting friend is a visiting professor at NUS. He is also my business partner and benefactor. He really encouraged me and gave me a lot of advice. He is Mr Ng Hock Ching. He is very inspirational. He started as my customers and he liked my services and products. Then he became my friend and role model.

What qualities does it take to succeed in business?
It's important to have good products and excellent service, especially after sales service. A good representation of prices is also important. You must always quote market prices. So honesty and sincerity matters and the integrity of the company is also important. With these values, the company can last longer and bigger customer base.

What would happen if you got sick, who would run your business?
My wife should be able to run the company. She is also the company director and she is also very active in the business though she is very active. The staffs are another very important pillar in my company. I've always tried my very best to treat them well, without them the company cannot reach greater heights.

How does your business work? You get a commission on goods you buy or are on consignment?
You pay cash, there is no consignment though some of the local companies give you 30 days credit. When there is consignment, the brand is not doing very well. We own all our stocks. There are companies that offer consignment but we are not interested in the goods. So we have a huge inventory. In watch business, the investment and inventory holding is very high, just like jewelry and goldsmith stores.

How does your business work? You get a commission on goods you buy or are on consignment?
Drive, passion and hard work. As a boss, this is your company, you want have a better lifestyle, you will have to work doubly hard. But I do have some staff that are hardworking and passionate but they do have private priorities. They are not like me, this is totally my business. But I reward my staff well.

Why does someone decide to be on their own rather than join an existing company?
You can have freedom and decide for yourself what you want to do. I think this is an important factor. When you are working for people, you have to orientate yourself to what your boss wants.

When was the moment you realized that the business would work and support you?
It depends on what kind of lifestyle you are talking about. But for me, it's about 1 or 2 years of after starting my own business. The business is really enjoyable. Sometimes when you hit targets, you are given free trips to go overseas to see watches for example to Switzerland, this promotes further my interest in watches. You get to know a lot of people. Networking is really important, in the beginning, I didn't think networking was so important. I was always in the shop, I had more distractions and less focused.

What would you advise young people to do today in starting a business?
It's always the patience plus hard work. There is no free lunch. You must have the initiative. If you do that, in due time, you will succeed.

Who is your role model?
This friend who is in the shoes business, Mr Lai. He also sells shoes from Switzerland. He is my good advisor and friend. He always encourage me to do things. He was really helpful, both in the financial and spiritual areas. Though I didn't always go to him for help, he always gave me good advice. He is in his sixties now.

What do you do about retirement funds? You just save on your own?
I contribute to CPF. I draw a salary from the company. My wife too. We also buy insurance and savings and my prized watch collections.

Did you ever think of expanding the business in some way or in multiple locations?
Yes, we are considering that. We are rather excited about going regional. We have dealers in KL and Jakarta. I always wanted to go regional because the Singapore market is so small. It's quite saturated. It's not that there is no market but it always good to expand your business. However it's not easy. You need quite a lot of backing. We are already doing business in KL. I would prefer to look for more dealers rather than open our shops. It would awkward to compete with the dealers as you will be selling the same things so it's better to identify more dealers.

If you are chosen as one of the 39 winners will you come to the ceremony to be honored?
Yes, definitely it's an honor.

Will you be comfortable with the press and TV asking you many of the same questions if you are a winner?
Hopefully I can give them a good answer.

Do you have any objection to this interview being posted on the Community Web Site or published in the newspaper prior to being chosen?
No objections.

If part of the Spirit of Enterprise is a scholarship given in your name directed to any school you would like to give it to: any idea now where that would be? You don't have to decide now, but if some day you are asked - any ideas? Primary school, secondary, college, technical or university?
You can collect funds and tap into the funds and train the students. We can give them some ideas on the trades of the business.

Who do you admire?
Dickson Poon from Hong Kong. He also started as a watch man. He made his business big. He has shops in Singapore too.

Before I go any other story you would like to tell me?
No, I'm still learning around from people and I'm not that experienced and successful. Hopefully more people guide me around.

Student Interviewer's Personal Comment