Mr. Roger Koh, CEO of Chen Fu Ji International F&B Group, has held senior positions in multi-naitonal corporations until 1995 when he left the corporate world to become an entrepreneur in the F&B industry with his investment stake in Chen Fu Ji. Roger strongly feels that the Chen Fu Ji Imperial Golden Fried Rice is a Singapore legacy and took upon himself to protect, develop and share this legacy. He has acquired a deep and broad exposure in both Eastern and Western management philosophies, especially in the realm of human resource management and believes that ancient Chinese literature has the most advanced theory on this subject.

Company: CHEN FU JI INTERNATIONAL F&B GROUP Address: 23a Smith Street, Singapore Website: http://www.chenfuji.com.sg Interview with Mr. Roger Koh by Pan Shiying Serene on 29-May-2009. Student can be reached at serenepan@nus.edu.sg   Business Profile: The origin of Chen Fu Ji can be traced more than fifty years back to Singapore's Chinatown. Realizing the market potential of Chen Fu Ji fried rice in Singapore and beyond, Mr. Roger Koh, their present CEO, boldly bought over the restaurant in early 1995. The Chan sisters who created the fried rice, have since retired, however, their legacy of the ultimate fried rice, complemented by several innovative signature dishes, continues to thrive in all outlets of the Chen Fu Ji International F&B Group.   Interviewer's Comments: It was a breeze interviewing Mr. Roger Koh because he is a nice and approachable man with no airs. It was very enlightening to be able to hear his stories and plans he has for both his corporation and himself. I had learnt aplenty through the interview and I respect him for his attitudes and philosophies he has for his business.   1. What is the nature of your business? Chinese F&B. It is somehow different from the rest as we are trying to preserve a heritage.   2. When and why did you decide to become an entrepreneur / take over your family business? NOTE: If it is not a family business, ask: Do your parents have their own businesses too? Have they inspired you in one way or another? (Select appropriate question according to the entrepreneur being interviewed.) The reason why I acquire this business, 15 years ago, was because of a very popular dish that had been made famous by two ladies with a history since the 1960s. The dish itself was actually a long forgotten recipe from China and somehow, these two ladies used it in Singapore and made the dish famous. Because the process of preparing this dish takes a very long time and as the social pace becomes faster, it is predicted to be eliminated in no time. So when I took over, I have the objective of keeping the legacy. It is not so much of a mindset of money making but more to protecting a legacy. No, this is not a family-run business. In addition, I feel that it should not be one too. Because I believe that when you put a family member into a team or corporation, the rest of the members will automatically become outsiders. As such, the devotion and dedication will be a complete different story. So when you can work without an insider, the rest of the staffs will all be your own team members. Though in a narrow sense it is not family business, however, in a broader scope, everyone here is a bigger family. No, my mother is 85 years old and she has been a housewife all these years while my father passed away when I was ten.   3. What are your reasons for choosing to do business in this particular industry? As mentioned, I hope to protect a legacy. As I was with an American company and was the Asia Pacific CFO, I am frequently involved in acquisition, investments, mergers and I chanced upon this restaurant that was serving a legacy. However, as it was not properly managed, I felt there was a need for me to do something about the restaurant. So I acquired this business. Initially I did not know that it was going to be a full-time job and thought it was just another acquisition - buy and leave it there. Nevertheless, this was not the case because in this F&B industry, it is a full-time commitment business. Accordingly after acquisition, I felt I need to be responsible and as a result, I quitted my position as CFO. Next, I came into business because I believe what the founder of my ex-company said, 'I created five thousand jobs for the society.' I truly think it is a really for a good cause to create employment. Being able to create jobs acts as a social stabilizer in the whole society and that was a great inspiration for me. When I was approached to take over the business 15 years ago, I actually thought of him because I was quite bored with the American corporation. I think a lot of people were earning big bucks not because they were good but because their predecessors did the right thing - planted the right trees and they are now reaping the benefits. At that time, I felt I wasn't worth that much, so when there was an opportunity to acquire this business, I wanted to prove to myself. I wanted to try if I were to quit this job, will I be able to prove my own values. Secondly, I will have the time and freedom to do whatever I want to create jobs for people. I set myself an objective - anyone who comes to the company has to progress through learning. So that by the time they leave the company, they will be a better person than before. Now, it no longer concerns unemployment; it concerns adding values to employees' stay in the company. I believe that if every employee is learning and progressing, then there would be such a culture in the company and I am sure every progressing company would be able to survive. Over the years, when I count my successes, I actually count the number of staffs who have progressed and exceeded the company and started their own business or who have found a better job than before than counting the amount of money I made. To date, I am glad that my successes were not minute.   4. How did you put together all the resources needed to start your business? For example: getting the start-up capital, hiring staff, doing sales and marketing, advertising, etc. I always believe in management. If you have an above-average management style, your business would also be above-average and the business would be able to survive and prosper. It is also important to understand the government policies with regards to human resource management. Because in this line of business, you do not get a lot of Singaporeans working, so you have to depend largely on foreign workers. In addition, the number of foreign workers that you could employ is heavily dependent on the policies of Ministry of Manpower (MOM). If the MOM thinks that this person is of no worth because he does not have a paper qualification, then even if the employer believes that he has talent, the person could not be employed. So, it is very much restricted with MOM. In terms of monetary sense, the cost of acquisition was not a very big sum as at that time as the business was only very small. I paid close to SGD200, 000 cash to acquire the business. I felt it was not that much at that time and I think that was how entrepreneurship was born, together with a little bit of ignorance. Personally, I feel entrepreneurship is born many times out of ignorance. You simply just want to do it with all your heart and soul to make things happen for a good cause.   5. Did you acquire this business all by yourself or did you share with other people? I acquired this all by myself. Because all these while I have been working in good positions and well-paid jobs for about 15 years. So I have sufficient funds and did not need to borrow any money from the banks for that acquisition.   6. Did you have a hard time looking for your team of management and did you started off with a management team? I have stopped looking for people because I realized that for a small company, we do not have the resources to hijack talents from other companies. The solution is to look inwards and people with potential - People who understand the business and is willing to commit to the business. This would be more realistic than trying to target people from top management of other companies. No, I did not. When we started off, the focus was on the two ladies. They were the attraction and many customers visited us because of them. The focus was on them and also on how to retain them rather than hiring new people to replace them.   7. What are some interesting stories you have about your first few customers/first few years in business? The two old ladies were very temperamental and difficult to work with. Almost every customers got scolded by them in a way, for instance, if you want to add dishes after eating the first round, you will get reprimanded for being indecisive during the ordering in the first round. Despite these nasty services provided by the two ladies, business was not affected. In fact, many people from the top management of the companies are frequent patrons of our restaurant. Unlike the past, however, the focus is very much customer centric. So, this business model has to be modified.   8. What are some of the challenges you faced when you first went into business? As the elder sister who was in charge of cooking became very weak, we had to plan for her retirement and to find a successor. So this was a very difficult time for the company as all the focus of the company were on the two ladies, they were the heroes in the eyes of everyone, including customers. I did not get very serious into the business until the two ladies were about to retire because when they were around, there were no difficulties. We had good crowds every evening and customers did not mind the 'bad' service rendered by the two ladies. And when it was time for their retirement, it was never easy to tell the customers that the two ladies were no longer around and someone else is doing the cooking.   9. How did you overcome these challenges? There was a belief, as long as we are professional; we will be able to deliver the same qualities of the recipe. In this way, we could attract both the old customers and new patrons. Hiring chef is very difficult, especially good chefs. They come and go and they come with a clear motivation that they want to dominate. The first chef, who was quite good, would tell me things like, 'Could you help with the renovation of my house?' So a talented but not professional chef would demand and to find a talented yet professional chef is relatively difficult in F&B industry. Even if you manage to find such person, he would probably start his own business. So, the solution would be to find an average person, not so smart or professional, maybe a little stupid and then motivates and trains him up to be good enough for the customers.   10. So most of the times, you engaged those chefs that come and go, wouldn't you be afraid that they might 'steal' your recipe and start their own business? No, in the F&B industry for 14 years, I am never afraid of others knowing my recipe and if you are a professional, there would be a certain amount of hard work and talent within you and that is the ultimate recipe. So I do not think I should be afraid of giving this recipe away. For instance, an educator who teaches students XYZ, everyone learns the same thing but not everyone can master it well. Sometimes it is good to let them know your recipe, because they do not follow it closely. At times, they just create their own recipe. So what's more would happened if you lock your recipe up and let no one knows? It would be disastrous. In fact, when we hosted the fried rice competition twice, we give away recipe and this was the time they actually listened and followed because they want to win.   11. What other ambitions do you have besides becoming a CEO of a group of restaurants? I actually believe what flows in my blood is more artistic than what I am doing now. I think I should be a musician or an artist rather than being a CEO of a group of restaurants. I have my personal ambition, which is quite different from what I am currently doing. I have actually set aside a time for me to pursue my ambition. As such, I need to build the business to such point in which it can be auto pilot and that point is next year. I have made declaration or announcement to people that next year August I am going to Cambridge to study, not for the certificate but for the place. I like the place and I want to stay there for three years and to mix with the top notch people. Personally, I am not so much of an F&B person, over the last few years, I learnt how to cook, write recipes and design menus.   12. So along the way, have you been attracted to the F&B industry? If no, how did you managed to stay on in this industry? No, sadly. The responsibilities drive me. The employees drive me to stay on. I have to take care of them, their progress.   13. How did you manage your company to adjust to the different crisis that arose throughout the years? When I get to the F&B business, the golden times have already passed. The Chinese F&B business in the 60s and 70s were fantastic, you could do anything and would be able to buy a few bungalows a year. In the 80s, it became more difficult and in the 90s, it was beginning to be a mistake to get into business in this industry, especially Chinese restaurants. The youngsters rarely eat at the Chinese restaurants other than mother's birthday or grandparents' birthday. So when I get into this business, I did not enjoy the kind of crowd compared to 10 years ago. I think whenever crises happen, there would be a change in the market structure, meaning some have to go and few will stay. The survival criteria would be those who are able to adapt to changes, meaning the staffs of the company have a change in mentality. So it is the ability to change and to change fast enough. I believe to create a difference, you have to do a different thing, but you do not have to do the same thing faster. You should be always ready to accept changes and do something extra on top of what you have been doing. For example, we are trying to put performances, like magic, into usual service for our Flagship outlet. They are all learning magic during their break time from 3 to 5pm, all by themselves. In this way, you do something different from the rest. In the past, when there were few customers coming to the restaurant for meals, we actually went to look out for business. We managed to cater to people working in the shipyards and miraculously, we had record sales during SARS period. However, it is very important that your staffs support you and be willing to embrace a new concept. They must be agreeable to help you delivering the extra miles.   14. What are some of your proudest business achievements to date? And why are they so important and meaningful to you? I think I meet good people and that is how I count my success. In fact, I told my staffs they would not be leaving me. They could be leaving for their hometown or other reasons; I believe that they will return especially good staffs and that happens for many of my staffs. My first chief chef after the two ladies retired, he was still a general worker then, so when he came to me I felt that he has talent. So he eventually progressed to the chief chef in the kitchen and 4-5 years later, he left me and started his own business, though successful but was hard work. After which, he came back to us and has been with me for 14 years with a gap of 2 years whereby he went out and started his own business and learnt something new.   15. How do you differentiate your business from your direct competitors, for instance other Chinese restaurants in Singapore? Just be yourself is enough differentiation and do not try to be like them. There is always an urge to copy and follow what others are doing; sometimes it is very sad because they are not taking the correct ideas from others.   16. Would you be afraid that others would imitate your business ideas? Go ahead! I believe no other restaurateurs would want to copy me as I think very differently. For example, I help my staffs to apply PRs which other restaurateurs would not. They think that their staffs are here for a job and if they are not performing up to standard, send them back to their hometown. However, in my opinion, I treat them as my family members, so I do not follow what the industry thinks. Instead I think it is a good test for them, if after obtaining PR and they stay on with the company, you would know they are the right people for you. However, if they choose to leave, you would know that you have been keeping the wrong people all the time.   17. What are some business ideas you have implemented that created great results in your business? I am filled with creative juice and would always have aplenty ideas flowing into my mind. I also do the extraordinary. For example, I created the noodle house concept in 2004 because franchisee wanted a noodle house. I did not have it initially and since people wanted it, I deliver to them. So we actually planted a noodle house in Changi Airport T2. And that is the most uncommon thing to do because that is a franchise outlet when I do not have a model shop. Usually, franchise works this way, if people like your model shop, they pay you and get the franchise outlet. However, for the Changi outlet, I put my franchise outlet first then I put my model shop at Suntec City and both have been very successful to date. The biggest challenge has been the perception in customers' mind that Chen Fu Ji serves nothing but fried rice. So the best way is to have a new name, which in this case is Chen Fu Ji Noodle House. In this way, by looking at the name, you would immediately link up noodles than fried rice. I have also created a new concept store called Grains which is located at The Central. It is a healthy eating concept establishment. Basically, I follow the first medical book in China which acts as the business philosophy of that store and business have been good too.   18. What do you see for your business in the next 5 years especially when you are going over to Cambridge next year, and does it include any plans for expansion? It is a test for me and I am able to put together a strong management team. Of course, with the aid of technological advances like MSN, it makes no difference whether you are physically present or not. It is also possible to give them a lot of problems and managing the business from Cambridge. However, having said that, you still need someone to be physically around to attend to problems so it boils down to building up a team of strong management. In addition, the recession helps in the sense that more people are unemployed; there is a bigger pool of talents available rather than hijacking someone from big firms. I would be hoping for some franchise overseas especially England that is where I will be heading next year. One of my ambitions is to bring Chinese to Western countries and make them understand the cuisine and culture through better communication.   19. From what I learnt, Chen Fu Ji has outlets in both Hong Kong and Shanghai, how did you manage to compete with the local restaurants over there? You cannot set yourself to have an aim of earning a million dollar there. The main goal of setting restaurants there is to attract Singaporeans, and they bring their Chinese friends along and explain to them the right taste for food. Shanghai, being more international, the level of acceptance of a Singaporean restaurant is higher. There is no problem in Hong Kong, in fact, it is the best outlet and has been receiving very good reception. Ultimately, you have to be prepared to adapt to fast changes.   20. What are some entrepreneurship qualities that you have which has helped you come this far? I think I am a fighter. There is a saying, 'Tough times don't last, tough men do'. This is my strongest quality. With regards to communication, I can communicate to the staffs in their language. So there is no serious problem when relaying messages both top-down or bottom-up. However, I think I am not a good entrepreneur model, because money making is not my priority. Because most people measure success of an entrepreneur by looking at the amount of money they make and I believe that has been the definition of entrepreneurship in most dictionaries. I am more of an entrepreneur in Chinese sense, Qi Yue Jia (a pictorial representation of the words means everything starts with man and ends with man).   21. In your opinion, what other qualities does a person need in order to be successful in business? The lesser qualification, the better to start a business. I do not speak for myself because I have four certificates which are equivalent to four honours degrees. Lesser qualification because you will have more drive and you are prepared to listen because you do not know, more receptive and do not spend too much time thinking 'how-to' questions. Instead most of the times, you do it straight away with full passion. With a certificate, you would think of the opportunity cost of setting up a business and leaving your current, stable job and most of the times after consideration, you would choose to stick to the stable job. Nonetheless, it is also important to constantly upgrade yourself, especially when your business is stable. For instance, Mr. Li Ka-Shing (Li Jia Cheng) who received little education since young could speak English now and is able to converse with his business associates in English well. Basically to be successful in business, you do not need to have high qualifications at the start however, it is very important to have wide networks.   22. With regards to your opinions above, do you face a lot of difficulties since you are so knowledgeable? I learn how to unlearn. In a way, yes, because in the first five years, I was very much an accountant. Then subsequently, I told myself I should not be an accountant anymore. Or rather, accountancy knowledge should not be at the forefront during decision making.   23. In your opinion, what does it mean to have the 'spirit of enterprise' I think one has to have a good cause for owning a business besides making money. If there is a good cause, you will get support from all your staffs and the teamwork becomes stronger. In addition, prepare to accept and learn from failures. You must not be afraid to try new things, especially living in Singapore which has no natural resources. We need to maximize our creativity and because we have no natural resources, we have to change faster than our competing neighbours like Malaysia. I do not like to see people going into business with just monetary motivation. This could be very disruptive. For example, one simple way of creating tasty food is to add MSG but it is not a healthy option for us to choose from. So if you are being motivated by just money, you would add MSG to your dishes and not produce the best food with the best quality.   24. What are some of your business values and what would you like to pass down to others, particularly the younger generation? Most of the times, staffs do not read memos. So my advice would be to send mass-SMS to convey the message and request them to reply you. In sum, you have to know what your staffs do and do not perform. And you have to react to the changes and not stay stagnant.   25. Who or what motivates and inspires you? MM Lee Kuan Yew. I can imagine how difficult it was when he was building the nation. The choice and sacrifices he had to make and in some ways, I relate to him in the process of building this company. At times, you have to create misunderstandings because you have no time to explain but the decision is for the good of the company and maybe beyond their ability to understand certain actions implemented. So likewise, he must have faced the same kind of situation when building up Singapore. Certain times, the general public did not share the vision he has, so he would have to accept a good deal of misunderstandings before he could show his decisions are right. He actually sacrificed a lot of things for Singapore, for example, his personal life.   26. With the changes in the market today, do you think it has become harder or easier to succeed in business? Why do you say so? Harder, Very hard. The cost is going up all the times despite recession period. Landlords are trying their luck to increase the rental. I think certain kinds of business becomes more difficult, especially the labour intensive sector. Over the years, life becomes more comfortable and lesser people are interested in the service industry. People want to be served than rendering service. F&B industry is also becoming more challenging because customers decide what is correct.   27. What advice would you give young people who want to start their own business? Three things. (1) Improve your command of Chinese language. Because out of every two students in school now will have some sort of business dealings with China when they completed their studies. So it is important to make sure that your Chinese is good because if your Chinese is not good, even if you manage to get the business deal, there will not be any respect for you. (2) Build your network. You need your networks to get things done. (3) School work. Remember what you are learning now because you may need them in future. No half past six. Learn them wholeheartedly.