Your dad was the one who started this business?
Yes, He left China to come overseas, more or less to look for employment. He came here, and he started his F&B business.

What was he doing in China before then?
He came here when he was very young, I think he came when he was 18 years old.. In those days, he probably hopped onto a bumboat and came here and looked for a job. For Hainanese, the trades are usually chicken rice and coffee shop owners, these two main trades.

Did he have any training when he first started out?
No training at all, no training. He picked it up and he joined partner with two other guys. One of them passed away while the other left after some time, so he was left on his own and he had his own business. My mum came and helped him … business then was ok … I have some old pictures which I can show you if you are interested … in those days we sold coffee, tea, toast bread and pau and he served customers with newspapers, some of them are CID inspectors so whenever they were there, crooks avoided the place ... My dad was a humble man … after we moved over from Lau Pat Sat to the transit market, the government wanted the land, so we got nowhere to go, Far East Organization through Far East Square approached us and we came here.

How long ago was that?
That was only about 4 years ago. We were at Lau Pat Sat for about 40 to 50 years …. Then we moved to transit market …. The idea of a transit means temporary stay, but the transit was 10 years … and Scotts holdings bought over the building and the raised the rent … after 10 years, the government needed the land for an expressway. so those 144 stores could not afford to move back … for our case, we worked til the last day. Far East organization asked us to come over here and they assured us they would help us succeed. The chairman of Far East was an ardent supporter, so we came, and that was only 4 years ago … so during the last 4 years, a lot of them approached us, why dun you do this, do that, why dun you franchise, so we approached Spring Singapore, the former PSB, and we asked them to do feasibility studies for us, so if we franchise would it work, so they had some business development plans for us, so now we have a few franchises. One in tanjong pagar … because Far East plaza was under Metro, so Metro closed and Far East Organization converted the place and we have a store there.

So you are the eldest son in the family?
I have a very big family, all in all there are 6 boys and 2 girls, I am the youngest. So you can imagine how old is my eldest sister. In fact all of us are involved in the business one way or another, but some of them are retired, and since I am the youngest … when the family all share the same thinking, all of us are workers, we dun really think and plan, we need someone to strategise, we get outside help. We are still surviving …

How does your franchise system work?
They would pay us a sum of up-front fee and then give us a royalty every month, on top of their gross sales turnover. But they are doing very well, they are very happy, that's the important thing, the relationship must always be there.

Have you always been involved in the business all along?
Yes I have been. Because we stayed just across the road last time, at Hong Leong building, a three storey shophouse. There were about 7 families there, all very poor … There is only one shop, all of us are workers … we all helped out at the store. It's amazing, it's just coffee and bread, and my dad with his bare hands raised all the children.

What about your mother?
My mother helped, she is the main supporter of my dad, she makes the kaya … those days were more simple, there were no electrical appliances, we boil and grind the coffee beans, we use those drums to roll … it was not easy in those days.

What makes your kaya better than others?
It is more like practice makes perfect. We have always been doing it. Right now we have a small factory, and it is still very simple, no machinery. Our kaya has no preservatives, colouring. We make it there and we sell it in our outlets only. Not available elsewhere and it can last for about a month without refrigeration. If you put it in the fridge it can last for more than 6 months.

Now you have any children interested in the business?
Right now I have only a boy in JC1, 17 years old. Everytime when we talk business, he overhears and he knows what is going on … basically our food is very generic, it is simple fare, the way they cut the bread, they use charcoal to toast the bread … in those days they slice the toast into smaller pieces, in cube form. But now we have no time so we just slice it into half. Of course our soft-boiled egg is very soft. These are the only types of food we sell, we try not to diversify too much. WE want a certain identity …if you have too much variety, your kitchen will be propped up with too many things and people with more choices tend to dilute your brand.

Why did you choose to come into your dad's business? There must be a choice to go out and work if you want.
You are right, it was not an easy choice. I thought about working for others before, then I thought that this is my family business and people naturally come and want to have a cup of coffee and have some toast. Maybe because of the name … I was thinking about coming into this business. People have the perception,' oh, you all must be very well-off'. I said no, my dad still stays in a four-room flat … my family is contended to just let the family name remain, there are two concepts, fame and fortune, we go more for the fame … just because my dad passed away three years ago, we showed him this place before it was renovated … he was worried we could not make it, but we reassured him don't worry, we will.

Do you have other businesses besides this?
No, no. I just concentrate on this and support all the franchisees and make sure all of them are doing fine.

Those days must be very difficult for you guys. Do you have any problems when you first started out in the franchise?
Basically, we could not anticipate what could happen. What if it does not take off? What if it fails? We are not brought up with the entrepreneur spirit. We are just happy to do the work and believe the customers will come in.

Were there days when your dad was worried that there was not enough to feed you guys?
My dad was a tremendously hard worker. He wakes up early in the morning at five, and he will work till five or six o'clock when he will come back for dinner after which he will go back to the stall, so that the next morning everything will be ready … we go and look for him at the stall. In those days he sleeps on a wooden bench, whenever a customer comes, he is ready to serve them. Maybe the fear of failure drives him.

So the stall opens till late? Very late?
Yeah, almost 24 hours from morning seven to night 3am. So from morning 3am to seven we close, cause there are not many customers at that time. It is a very good location cause it caters to a lot of offices and people go there for supper too.

So the franchise was a PSB initiative or your own idea?
Because a lot of them approach us and wanted to joint-venture with us, you know, just open a store here and there. They also suggested franchising and that set us thinking. We thought we should do something about it … of course we thought about the bad side too, like when we go into franchising, the food will be diluted, the name will be brought down …

Secrets of your success?
Hard work and consistency. Service and quality too. You must provide good service and quality products. I mean people come back for more because you provide them value for money.

Have you envisioned your business becoming much bigger than this? Have you thought of going overseas?
Yes, again some people approached us and we find that we need some market franchiser, someone who can bring the business across to other markets … places like Hong Kong and Taiwan. China would be another area which we are looking into, but not too soon. A lot of them approached us, but we want someone to bring it over for us and make sure the quality remains, and also do something to suit the taste buds there, like in Thailand and Vietnam, they prefer things a bit different. We have a lot of visitors to the store, in fact yesterday over a hundred tourists came from Canada. The Singapore Tourism Board will bring tourists here every now and then, from different countries to showcase different facets of Singapore culture.

What would you advise young people who want to go into business today?
Young people? If they want to start a business, first of all they must have the money, capital. An interest in the business too. A lot of people approached us, they want to do franchise. They thought it is so simple. First of all we ask them 'do you have the capital?" They said no, because everything is POD- payment on delivery. They thought it was a money-making sort of business. We told them it is not so easy, you still need some money, first of all you need to pay the rent, basically most places demand three months upfront rental. Then you need a bit of upfront fees, etc. All in all it can come up to 80000 to 100000 dollars. Because certain places let's say rental is 8000, three months advance would be 24000. Add to that renovation of about 30000, that makes 54000. so you need some money to pay your workers and raw ingredients and all that - 20000. That makes 60000. all in all it can easily come to 80000 to 100000. For young ones we usually tell them you need capital, the trade is easy to learn. When you come to a business like this, you are capitalising on the brand name … already 80 to 100 proposals have been coming to us during the past 6 months and we short list them.

What are the criteria to make the short list?
Very simple, we tell them franchising is like a marriage between franchisee and franchiser .We want them to win also, if they win, we are happy also. If we are not doing something good, we would not want to encourage them also. How do we shortlist? We ask them if they have F&B experience or not, whether they want to just invest in the business, we always advise them that someone has to be responsible for the business, not just put the money there and do nothing. The money does not grow by itself - it needs hard work. You need workers to provide good service and good food … the easiest one is the multi-franchise, where they already have some franchises with us and they want to open another one, multiple franchises, so we just have to look for another location for them … it is easier for us too because there are less human links to handle. If I work with two or three, it is better.

Have you been worried that other people might just come along and copy your business since there are so few barriers to entry?
As I said we do simple things and a lot of people can come along and copy that. I don't know whether they can do it or not, but we put our heart into doing it to ensure the toast and kaya is well-done.

Do you have a regular pool of clientele to draw from?
Yes, we have some regulars or else we cannot survive. Those who come once in a while, come once in a while. Those who are working around here, come regularly.

Any customers from your old days at Lau Pat Sat?
Yes, in fact the best example is Citibank. When we are there, Citibank was just behind us and when we moved here, Citibank is just here next to us … OCBC bank is here too. There are some regular clients around … the thing is that they do not have to reconsider, it is not something new that they have to think twice before trying.

Your dad must have done a very good job in establishing that reputation.
We have a lot of celebrities who came here like Charlotte Church …

What are some of your role models in business?
I don't want to mention names, but there are loads of people who are very successful through hard work and their business acumen. I admire those people who are successful and yet maintain strong family attachments … some people are successful but they have a second or third wife, very disruptive … most probably the husband and wife work closely together.

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