So why did you come back?
When my father first approached me, I said, "Give me a little bit of time." And so I took a little bit of time a researched on family businesses. I spent a lot of time in American libraries and mind you that the oldest incidence of family businesses is actually in the US, with Italians and lots of the migrants' families. If you look at the cycle of how they have re-engineered their business, so that was really how. I realized that if we continued in the way we were continuing for Hock Tong Bee, we would hit a dead end. Eventually the turnover will grow smaller, the business will grow smaller and eventually just close up one day.

Well my father had structured the company in such a way that we were neither too small nor too big, so we were caught in between. And the danger is that we will get squeezed out from both sides. So I gave my father a list of criteria that he had to agree to, before I come back. One of which is that I want to totally professionalize the company, which means that I wanted to have all my inefficient family members to exit the business. When I joined the business, we had 35 employees, of which we have 17 family members. Today, whole of South East Asia, we have 75 employees, two family members. So I gracefully allowed all the family members to exit. And one of the other conditions is that I wanted to start from the bottom, so I started as a Sales and Marketing Executive and worked my way to the top. Because I believed that any person needs to know the business to run that business. Basically I always share with people that I am a real 'garang guni" man because I know every single facade of my business. And I review from your inventory, to your finance and to your creation of your business. I am very hands-on on all these.

My first three years was all sales and marketing and I learned everything the hard way. I was pushed around by everybody. I think I did everything that people didn't believe I could do. After three years, my father decided that I was ready, that was when he made me a Director. That was when I basically ran the company but under his supervision. It was in the mid of 2002, that he decided to retire and made me Managing Director.

So what is your current business model?
So the difference in our business today is that we are not only an importer, exporter, wholesaler and retailer, we are also a winery operator, which means we are now integrating our entire business. We are going backwards because I am building a brand. Because before we represent other people's brands, today I represent my own brand but along with a lot of other people's brands. Something that is tangible, a brand that is mine, that can never be lost. We are integrating ourselves horizontally and vertically, and upstream and downstream. Obviously, upstream, we have set up the Provignage, which is a real showcase down to the consumer level where we want what the consumer is looking for, we want to be in touch with them, we want to know their every move so we better and best understand our customers. So we want to build ourselves is into an entire Food & Beverage company that is horizontally and vertically integrated, upstream and downstream integrated as well.

Did you face any difficulties or obstacles when you started all these restructuring especially in a family-owned business? And how did you overcome them?
Well, I have a lot of friends who were also in other family businesses. So when they joined the business, they don't make things clear. In most family businesses, they say, "You are my son, please come and help me." But you enter the business without knowing what's going on, what to expect and from yourself or your father. But when I joined the business, I knew exactly what I needed to do. So much so that I had to be very friendly yet very very firm. One thing was that my father was very open-minded. You always hear this, the older generation always says, "I eat more salt than you do eat rice". Many younger generation people work for a little while and they always hit the wall, and it not only spoils matriarch-patriarch and successor relationships, but it also destroys the succession plan. My father allowed me to make certain mistakes to allow me to learn because sometimes if you just take out the whip and just tell people that, "You can't do this because I know so and this is going to be the case." Well, I am sorry, this is the new generation, and we tend to have our pride. I do make mistakes but I am quite blessed. I am a fairly conservative person in certain aspects and I try to find out history before I make a decision. So the historical evidence allows you to preempt the mistake. For instance, I go to the SME Network because I have the opportunity to learn from all the experiences individuals has, so that I will never make the same mistakes that they did. And it is so true. So that is really one case of situation where the matriarch-patriarch and corporate succession situation was really tough.

The other is sometimes in many family businesses, the problem is the shareholders. Sometimes there are just too many shareholders. And sometimes too equal that you have different caps and it's basically a never-ending situation. Because the problem is that people tend to not want to step on other people's shoes, for fear of hurting another person's or family member's feelings. But in a proper organization, the focus should be getting the job done. So the blessing for my company is that my grandmother had the foresight to pass the majority of the shareholdings to all the sons, which meant my father and the three grandsons. It may seem chauvinistic, but really in any traditional family, it is the sons that continue all the business. This made by any virtue, that we cannot be overthrown. So that really allowed us to get the job done. I have to admit that in my generation because my elder brother would have joined the business already, there was still difficulty. Because being the youngest in the family, is another challenge, because no elder brother would listen to a younger brother. But I think my father chose the person who could fulfill the roles and bring the company to the next level. And I am the person who is "gong si gong ban", when you are at work, you work and when are you at home, you are family. So you keep those two very separate.

So really the hardship that one goes through, it is a thankless job. I think at the current moment, because of my restructuring and re-engineering that I put the company through, I think all the minority shareholders are all not very pleased with me. But I can tell you that the company has not been as successful as it has ever been in the last 2-3 years. And I hope to continue to go that way.

The other key aspect is our staff turnover. When I first joined the business, we had fairly high level of staff turnover, but today I have very low level of staff turnover. Because not only do we treat our employees better, we give them empowerment, but I feel that they feel as part of the family and they see a light in the tunnel. I not only build the realism for them, their belief in me, I also build a career path for them. And if you ask what Hock Tong Bee is going to be today, tomorrow, five, 10, 15, 25 years from today, its all mapped out already. I know exactly where we are going. But it is a lonely road; it is a road where you sometimes question yourself, "Am I going the right way?", "Am I doing the right things?" But it is this belief that I have at the back of my mind, burning very strongly in my heart, that I know that what I am doing is the right thing, and nothing will sway me from that.

Did you consider following your interest instead of taking over your father's business?
For me, I started tasting wine when I was seven. I just like the alcohol and the feeling it gave me. I was at a constant high. It was really out of interest. When I went to the college in US on an academic/ sports scholarship, it was so ironic, because my roommate was a winemaker. His parents owned White Hall Lane, which is a very famous Napa Valley Winery. They sold it and then bought into a smaller winery called Jud's Hill. And when we were in college, we used to make our own wines. And he showed me the ropes into making wines. And that was when I learned a lot of my wine making skills. When I was growing up, I did travel with my father to vineyards and exhibitions and wineries, so I learned a lot of that. So you call it a fate, pure coincidence, I guess is all the above. And then when I came back to Singapore, when I looked into my dad's business, I found that it was a natural flair for me. After which, I started writing for a lot of magazines like Straits Times, Business Times, Her World, 8 Days, Channel News Asia etc. I was interviewed a lot, I gave a lot of presentations, I spoke a lot about wines and it just became a love. I remembered my father said, "If you enjoy your job, you would not have worked a day." And the bottom-line is that, I love my job!

Is Hock Tong Bee always located at Bukit Timah Road?
No. Hock Tong Bee used to start out in Rochor Road. And Rochor Road was the trading hub of Singapore back then. That's where you find a lot of old trading houses. And because the government took away all the land to build, so that's when we moved. My grandfather bought our Bukit Timah site. Today, we are in a pre-war warehouse, that is surrounded by condominiums and I am sure everyone wonders where we are going to move again. We intend to look for a freehold piece of land to build a customized building for our future, where we can integrate our cellaring solutions as well as our warehousing facilities, a restaurant, a café and a library. A total lifestyle concept, which we will try to work with the STB as well to make it one if its destinations. That's why involving the concept of CornerStone wines, a wine made by Asian for Asian cuisine.

As for Provignage, why Robertson Quay?
Provignage's location was chosen by our ex-partner. It was chosen here because the STB was thinking about building the key concept which was Boat Quay, Clarke Quay and Robertson Quay. So we wanted a place that was slightly away from all the hustle and bustle, but we want it to be a destination point. We wanted to draw people here, give them a feeling that they have entered a whole different world when they walked into Provignage. We also wanted it to be our testing ground, where we could access our customers, allow people to taste a variety of wines without burning their pockets, to enjoy a concept you cannot find in Singapore, much less Asia. And allow people to enjoy friends and family etc.

How do you define good wines?
Ultimately, wines are assessed by the values as well as the point system that is given by all the world connoisseurs, but honestly speaking, I think that the best wine to you can only be determined by yourself. Because if you enjoyed that wine, that is the best wine to you. It's just like "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder", the best wine is individual, it is subjective, so there is something about this wine that you liked, then let it be that way.

Can you tell me some of the hardships that your grandfather and father went through in starting this business?
The difficulty for my grandfather part was that there was absolutely no capital and ultimately you have to start from scratch. For gunny sacks, my grandparents made money out of nothing. They were literally taking someone else's trash and making them into a product they could sell. At that time, for my grandfather, it was pure survival instincts, because they live day by day, they cannot think of what will happen a week, a month or a year in advance. From my grandmother, the key then was family, the family unity allowed us to survive. The love and the loyalty and the blood - "blood is thicker than water".

During my father's time, we nearly lost everything. We built ourselves to be the largest wholesaler and then the Indonesian riots happened. There were racism and the Indonesians burnt all the Chinese shops. And we lost everything. And that was when my father came back and started everything from scratch again. So that was his difficulty and trying to specialize, in building the brand and the longevity of the company.

One thing we must learn is that, "You never stop learning" and "Change is good". I observed that a lot of companies do not like changes. And that is wrong. You must embrace change, change is good. That's one and the second is you must continue to learn. Just because you are the top today, does not mean that you will be the top tomorrow. If you are No. 1, you must continue to build the buffer between No. 2, you never rest.

So why the name Hock Tong Bee?
Very interesting. My grandfather came up with that name. In Chinese, it means "Fu Tong Mei", which means prosperity (fu) together with beauty (mei). When he started the business, he wanted two things, prosperity and beauty. Now he achieved beauty with my grandmother, which was where he described "mei". But he wanted to make sure he could achieve prosperity together with beauty. That was the two main things in his life, so that is why he called it "Fu Tong Mei", when translated to dialect, it is "Hock Tong Bee".

I have to add Hock Tong Bee is a fantastic name, but at the same time we have to embrace change. Hock Tong Bee will soon become our family entity, which will own our new company which will be called CornerStone Wines. So that is a bit of change.

Tell me some stories about your best day in business.
In 1997, I was the first Singaporean to blend his own label wine, CornerStone, sales today at 250, 000 bottles. In 1999, I was the youngest to assume chairmanship of the Singapore Australian Wine Importer's Association and first to be re-elected again in 2000, and 2001. In 2001, I was voted one of Cleo's 50 most eligible bachelor's most connected bachelor and I launched our premium CornerStone wine. I was also awarded Australian Chamber's of Commerce, Young Achiever of the Year award in 2001. In 2002, I was proud to represent the government as Singapore Young Business Ambassador to Australia and I was nominated for Rotary - ASME Entrepreneur of the Year Award/ Singapore Youth Award/ Singapore Promising Brand Award and Tatler Magazine's Most Promising Young Man.

So what are your worst days?
I think when I started out the business in 1997, I was a greenhorn. People just push you around. And I remembered going around never telling people that I was "towkay's son". Because I want to achieve things on my own merit and it is tough world. So that is why today, I totally respect and understand what my colleagues are going through. I remembered going to a 5-star hotel, going to see a F&B Manager, and have the door slammed right at my face. That is such a painful experience.

Along with that, I remembered my Sales and Marketing Director at that time who was my Auntie and Operations Director; they really gave me a difficult time. I really suffered. But I am really thankful for that, because it really drilled me into a person who can look at things from all angles, who appreciate how important it is. And I have to share with you that I was close to leaving the company twice, because there was a conflict between my father and his two sisters, and my father was not strong enough to make a decision. And I just felt so abused, so neglected and so unappreciated. And I tell you my father is from the old school of thought, from 1997 till 2001, he never once came to me and said, "Son, good job!" That was one of the major things I always held in resentment to him. But I knew that it was a test.

And recently, when my father contracted cancer and was given only a few months to live. And he was really in his last days. I was at that time 28, being the youngest MD, and having 75 staff below you and most of them sole breadwinners. The pressure is beyond anything that I can describe. I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, having to couple with my father's illness, going back and forth to the hospital. At that time, I just came back from my Youth Ambassadorship to Australia, I lost 6 ½ kg in a month. And I was depressed internally but outwardly, I have to show an emblem of strength. Why? Because everyone looked to me, and I needed to be strong. And I felt like the loneliest person in the world. I can only share that to be an entrepreneur, to be a leader; it is a very lonely road. There are a lot of sacrifices one have to make.

What are some of the sacrifices you have to make?
In my business, social life is one of the sacrifices. Because it can really be tiring to attend parties and functions etc. And it doesn't allow you to have your own space, your own time. I wake up everyday at 7.30am, I go to the gym, after gym which is about 9am, I go to the sauna, at 9.30am, I read the papers and I reach my office at 10am sharp. I meet with all my managers till just pass lunch time, I have 5 minutes lunch, I work out all other businesses, and I come out. I check in at Provignage to make sure everything is ok. Most of the time, I have a lot of functions. After which, I usually end my day at around 12.30am to 1am in the morning and I do my PhD, which I am currently pursuing right now. I do it for about half an hour, one hour and I sleep at around 2.30am. That is just a simple schedule. You really don't have much of a life. As much of the time I have, I try to have my own space. And I spend a lot of time in the gym, working out, playing tennis, badminton because I believe a healthy body, you have a healthy mind. I think is very important.

There are a lot of sacrifices, especially when I am undertaking my PhD, getting involved in the rotary club, and International Wine and Food Society, getting involved in other charitable societies. This is part and parcel where I think I can contribute. I also train my ACS team in badminton every Saturday to contribute back to my alma mater, because my school and my sports is what ultimately make me what I am today.

I also sacrificed as far as girlfriends or marriage is concerned. I went out with two very nice ladies, but both of them just couldn't keep up with my lifestyle. When you have 75 individuals that rely on you, you take a more macro perspective to everything. Well, I can just drop everything because my father had really built the business and I can enjoy the reaps of it. As you always hear, "The first generation starts the business, the second generation builds the business into something good, and the third generation spends it." Well, I have yet to start spending it. I wish I could but I don't think I could ever do so because my aim in life is to build something to list the company where every single one of my colleagues and my employees can be an owner of their company. And to make sure that I can build and give each and every single one of them a better life. And that is my ultimate aim. Because if I can live life, I don' want quantity, I want quality and live life to the fullest. I always have this other principle: What you can do today, never leave it till tomorrow; make sure that you do it! I am a workaholic and I loved it. And although I don't spend a lot of time with my friends, I believed that I made good ones and I made quality ones.

Who are your competitors? And do you plan to merge or acquire with them to make a bigger business?
I always remember that my uncle, S.C. Huang, who used to be a property tycoon in Singapore, who used to own Orchard Hotel etc. Before he passed away, he shared with me that in a recession, new millionaires are made. This is because in good times, there is plentiful of opportunities, but in bad times, we have to work 10 times harder to find those opportunities. In the last few years, I was blessed that I was able to seek out those few opportunities. I think in this world right now, you encounter a lot of mergers and acquisitions, due to lack of corporate loans. We have acquisitions in the pipelines and we are positioning ourselves well. But acquisitions may not always be the best thing.

But I see going forward, there will be a big shakeout in our industry. A lot of the MNCs are suffering, a lot of the small players will die off. And we will continue to position ourselves well, in every single façade and niche market. And I believe the most important thing embedded in a company is that you must have the right product mix, right people that support the company because it's the people that make the company. You must have a good direction and strategy in order to build that. And thank god, we have that in place and we are going forward.

Some competitors are Maxim, Jardines Wines and Spirits and Richmont, these are the big boys who are not only MNCs but are also brand owners. That is why for us to buy over an international brand would be too costly and that is why we want to build CornerStone into a International brand. And today, CornerStone is distributed almost all over Asia and the Australia market, which has always been a impossible market to enter. But we now have them distributed in Adelaide, Melbourne, Tasmania, Queensland, Darwin and Perth. If there is a place for me to sell my wine, I am going to find it!

What are some of your values in doing business and what do you like to pass down to your children?
Well, we planned to list the company in 2005 and what I want to do is to let professionals, who have the passion, to run the business. I think the most important thing in business is to look long-term. You must have a combination of short, medium and long-term goals, and you must remember that "the customer is always right". Customers make things happen and you must tailor make your proposals and feeling for it. I think this is where the value-add comes in. I have been relatively successful with my customers because I care for their business.

Today, I always share with my colleagues that what you got to do is think about the concept of the outlet, think about the promotions that could run, because the important thing in business is not the listing or the first order, but the re-ordering. Because when a person re-orders means your product is not only selling, it is also being recognized. And that is part of the brand positioning and distribution areas.

I think the next step is honesty, which means you got to be fair. Fair, honest and ethical are the key aspects of the business. And always treat people well. You know a lot of people do short-term scenarios where "I think you are my one-time customer and I try to maximize my profits form you, and then say good bye." Well, the No. 1 seller now is not advertising, but is word-of-mouth. And that is an investment, which means you give this particular person mileage so that this person can bring another person to enjoy that particular mileage.

Other factors include, continue to learn, always set your sights high and that people make the company. No matter how good you are, if you go to war, you may be the most flamboyant and charismatic king, remember that it is your generals, lieutenants and your soldiers that win the war for you. No matter how good a fighter you are, you will never make it alone.

I am actually doing my PhD on Corporate Turnaround, and I am reading Professor Wee Chow Hou's "Sun Zi Ping Fa". Simple analysis like SWOT analysis, how to place your products, your 4Ps, these are just the basic things that you got to apply. And you know what the funny thing is, people forget basics. And I always go back to basics. Running a business is also three aspects: finance, business and inventory. Without generating business, you can't have your own company; and if you don't know how to manage your inventory, all your money is going to be tied up with your stocks; lastly, if you don't know how to run you finances, from your logistics costs to customer service, your sales and admin and your support costs, if you don't know how to handle that, you are also going to go down the tubes. The key here is to be very detailed, right down to the penny. You must know where everything is going. And that is sometimes a tough thing about a business. When you run your own business, you must be prepared to live, breathe, sleep and die your business. And that is a 24/7 situation.

How does you business work?
Basically, we are exclusive agents for a lot of the tops brands in the world. So basically we do an import and do a markup on margins and then we sell. And obviously for CornerStone wines, where we own the brand, basically, we make wines and we distribute all over Asia and the Oceanic regions. I would like to re-define our company as a brand company, because we are in the brand building concept. When you build a brand, sales and distribution comes naturally. So we are really a brand company.

Where do you make your own wines?
Basically, CornerStone wines are now made in France, Germany and Australia. Basically, I go there during every vintage to make the wines. Depending on the quality of the vintage, I would make the wines accordingly. And we have exclusive agreements with all the wineries to produce the wine that I want. And we have contracts with a lot of the growers. It is a very costly and specialized situation to grow through all that, it's a lot of hassle. But I believe that it has a position of differentiation and has a niche market to hook up.

What qualities that you have do you think differentiates you from someone who works for others?
You are coming to a question of nature or nurture on entrepreneurship and leadership. What differentiates me is that firstly, I am hungry. I am very very hungry! The hunger is in terms of greater heights and greater success. My mind is always looking, searching and trying to scrap whatever little bits that I can scrap out of no situation, to make some kind of situation out of it. The second thing is willpower. I am a relentless person. I continue to drill and knock on your door. I always share with my guys, "Knock and the door shall be open, seek and you shall find". You got to make things happen and not wait for things to happen.

You must have the drive yourself but sometimes you must also have someone you can look up to. I remembered during my time, I always looked up to individuals; I always set myself a very high target and follow that way. I look to people that I can better, and be my idols and be my icons, so that I can learn from them.

Who are some of your idols or role models?
I respect a person like Bill Gates. Because he is a dropout, but of course, he dropped out of a right school, Harvard. So making it there was one great thing. But I think that sometimes is the calling and he made the right call, and it does not mean that you have all the credentials in the world guarantees your success. No way! It is how you apply that to reality of life. So Bill Gates is someone that I really idolize.

Locally, a simple person like Sim Wong Hoo, who built the international world of electronics against all the big boys and to have your local stock exchange say no to your listing and go on to the U.S. to list and then to reverse the listing here. I think it is a great feat. And everyone should be encouraged by that, because in everything a person must be a maverick, which means you must an individual and courageous enough to explore new grounds, to go no one has gone before, to venture end seek the unknown.

As we try and pick the final 38 entrepreneurs from all the people we interview, what qualities would you think a person should have to inspire others?
I think that person must be one that others can identify with. I think it is key that the person must share with them the true realities of being an entrepreneur, which means that as much as entrepreneurship and success is much talked about, there is 1 in 1000 chances of succeeding. And being able to share the highs and lows of the route to success is very important. One must have the wrinkles to show for it. I would like people to see me in another different given manner; it does not mean that age is any precursor to maturity. That does not mean the older you are, the better you are, not true! At any point in time, you are an individual and you can make your mark. I am very proud to see younger individuals from the polytechnics, from the secondary schools, from the junior colleges, who sometimes even dared to set up their own company. I am always intrigued and impressed by individuals like that. I appeal to every single individual; every single entrepreneur that is there, that one must be able to identify with everyone else. They must be an emblem of reality. Not about just talking about all the good stuff, but really showing what tough times that one has to go through. But always sharing the fact that it is not the success that one must be impressed about, but the obstacles that one has got to struggle through, which is the true sign of entrepreneurship. For example, what about the garang guni man, in the streets, that survives and feeds his family of many. They really made something out of nothing!

What are some of the advice you would give to young people who may wish to start their own business?
I would say the most important thing is: Do your research! Do not think that just because it looks good means that it really is good. Always do your homework. For those people who failed, is because, somehow, they don't do their homework right. You got to do your homework, you got to study the market, you got to go into the real details of everything. So there is nothing more important in doing your homework.

If part of the Spirit of Enterprise is a scholarship given in your name directed to any school you would like to give it to: any idea now where that would be? You don't have to decide now, but if some day you are asked - any ideas? Primary school, secondary, college, technical or university?
Well, I think I would give it to a secondary school because primary school sometimes is still a little bit young for them to address this, and I honestly want them to enjoy their kiddy-hood. So I think it should be addressed at secondary school level, and I think the secondary schools are important to start the entrepreneurial cycle. And as much as I love my school, ACS, I think that they already have enough funds and support. I would give it to a neighborhood school, because it is the neighborhood kids that don't have enough exposure, that aren't as well taken care of.

Any other "secrets" to your success?
In any amount of success, always count your blessings. I can tell you that success is 90% hard work, 5% gift and a whole whole lot of luck. You know opportunities don't strike twice. You got to really seize the opportunity and make things happen. But the opportunities don't come to you if you don't work hard. They only come to you if you work hard. Don't think that if you are not as well off, not as well educated, not as well learned, means you would not have opportunities, which is not true.

If you are chosen as one of the 38 winners will you attend the prize presentation ceremony?
Yes, I will attend.

Will you be comfortable with the press and TV asking you many of the same questions if you are a winner?
Yes. No problem.

Do you have any objection to this interview being posted on the Internet (which will be put up by NTUC Income by next year) or published in the newspaper prior to being chosen?
No.

Before I go, any other story you would like to tell me?
I think going forward from where I am today, I can only hope to be just as good as what my father has done for the business, and for all the staff and employees that we have had. I really attribute all my success and blessings to my father, and he is the greatest person that I know and I have the greatest respect for him. And I think that in anything; always remember that your father is the person you learned the most from. No what matter what, as much as success is very important, health and family is probably more important. If you have a good health and a happy blessed family, no amount of money can ever replace that. And always keep that in mind.

All right, thank you very much Mr Ang for taking time to do this interview. Thank you!

Student Interviewer's Personal Comment